From - Sun May 12 19:37:24 2002 From: Fred Elbel Newsgroups: alt.org.sierra-club,alt.politics.immigration,alt.politics.greens Subject: Re: Sprawl insights Message-ID: References: <3CD2BB3B.220172B2@earthlink.net> <3CD47896.D14670E6@earthlink.net> <3CD5D668.4BF8CCF5@earthlink.net> <3CD7EF1F.3EC8DEA0@earthlink.net> <3CD94BE6.7506ABB6@earthlink.net> <3CDDBAD2.D55F2FD3@earthlink.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 121 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.253.170.186 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: rwcrnsc54 1021213617 12.253.170.186 (Sun, 12 May 2002 14:26:57 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 14:26:57 GMT Organization: AT&T Broadband Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 14:26:57 GMT Path: vienna7.his.com!news.lightlink.com!skynet.be!skynet.be!howland.erols.net!news-out.worldnet.att.net.MISMATCH!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.204!attbi_feed4!attbi.com!rwcrnsc54.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: vienna7.his.com alt.org.sierra-club:679 alt.politics.immigration:9851 alt.politics.greens:11122 > Fred Elbel wrote: > > It is quite likely that suppression of reasonable discussion on > > immigration numbers generates right-wing reactionary movements that > > fill the vacuum. On Sun, 12 May 2002 00:26:53 GMT, Charles Lynch wrote: > What suppression? a) Racist accusations on this list. b) Media avoidance of population and demographic-related issues. c) Mdeia avoidance of the complicity of corporate interests in setting public policy. d) Media ownership primarily by seven major corporations. > > That's why it is so important to facilitate such discussion here in > > the U.S., which is purportedly a democracy that promotes free and > > rational discussion on important national issues. > > You consider the various hate postings in alt.politics.immigration to be "reasonable > discussion"? I don't write that bullshit and I don't read it. > > There may be some connection. But the SPLC has its flaws and blinders > > on, too. And it does not follow that all immigration reduction groups > > are hate groups. > > What flaws and blinders? Please elucidate. The Southern Poverty Law Center's "Intelligence Project" issued a 2001 Special Annual Report on "Hate Groups" whose cover story is "Blood on the Border - The Anti-Immigration Movement Heats Up". The article drew no reason for immigration to be limited. It states that "The Cato Institute, citing the data's complexity, reported that it could not 'prove a causal connection' between environmental problems and the number of immigrants entering the United States." The SPLC articles and material are loaded with Anti-Immigrant hate quotes, exposing hate statements from the right, while simultaneously espousing its own leftist hate. The confused Public and elected officials will try thus to stray out of the fray and avoid rational discussion of the subject. This is the traditional tactic of those issuing racist accusations. SPLC discusses immigration issues from an anthropocentric (people-centered) perspective, but overpopulation and over-rimmigration are defined by the carrying capacity of the U.S. Our natural limits are eco-centered and are an objective perspective. Morris Dees, the founder of the SPL Center, made his fortune in the direct mail business. Their reports have a large element of the direct mail "fear factory" orientation. SPLC mentions only a small number of mostly unknown individuals and organizations, calling them a "vast right wing conspiracy". Regarding the Klan, it's no news that they hate immigrants. The SPLC make too much of the "power" of a such groups. But if you're in the direct mail business, that's what you have to do. The "immigration myths" section of the SPL Center Intelligence Report http://www.splcenter.org/intelligenceproject/ip-index.html contains multitudes of citations and misinformation. They, a leftist organization, quote the right-leaning Cato Institute as a herald of truth. Very interesting. The clear intent of the "myths" section of the SPL Center report is to suggest that anyone who brings up immigration is a racist. That would be news to Barbara Jordan, Richard Estrada, Richard Rodriguez, Frank Morris, T. Willard Fair, Sen. Gaylord Nelson, and the overwhelming majority of Hispanic Americans who support immigration reform. The SPL Center is pretty late to the scene. It was nowhere to be found in the 70's and 80's when the effects of mass immigration were first being realized and when a national discussion was necessary. From a July 2, 1986 editorial in the Baltimore Sun and the Philadelphia Inquirer: "It would be a shame if the American people, frustrated at congressioanl failure to deal with illegal immigration, took their frustration out on legal immigrants that continue to make this country great. But that may be happening. From Boston to Los Anglese, from Denver to Washington, there is increasing animosity towards all immigrants, both legal and illegal. Five years ago the Select Commission on Immigration and Refugee Policy warned that if the United States hoped to keep open the 'front door' of legal immigration, it would have to close the 'back door' of illegal immigration. So far, Congress has failed to heed that advice. The result is a growing and ominous immigration backlash." Harper's magazine (November 2000) exposed the SPLC as having lost sight of its mission in pursuit of more millions of dollars -- that it uses accusations of hate to raise enormous amounts of money, little of which is spent to fight racism. It has $120 million in its treasury, yet continues to fundraise. The American Institute of Philanthropy has given the SPLC one of the worst ratings of the groups it monitors. No one who cares about justice would send a check to the SPLC after reading this stunning article: http://nuance.dhs.org/lbo-talk/0012/0997.html > > What *is* important is to discuss the issue of mass immigration openly > > and honestly as a matter of national policy. > > And that is exactly what I am doing! In order to discuss the anti-immigration > movement honestly and openly, we need to look at the links it has to racist and > hate groups. Where they exist. And invent them if they don't exist. While the real issues of environmental destruction and domestic overpopulation driven by mass immigration are conveniently discarded by bigots as the agenda of racists.